ESPN. 15:20 AMP WW KB buffalo on ESPN 1520. Following is paid programming opinions expressed are not necessarily those of this radio station it to advertisers or sponsors on the western door to the eastern door and beyond welcome to -- native with John McCain. John addresses the issues of native people their communities and struggled to maintain distinction and a autonomy. Call 7168031520. To join the discussion now here's your host John McCain. Says go welcome let's talk -- this is John McCain -- -- let's talk. Native I've got to my good friend Matt hill in studio with me pretty much as usual here at the acts up it's good to have Matt -- And I've got two guesses have you gotten -- spring and I've got passed Bobby -- in studio both guys from the tunnel -- territories Seneca nation. -- to Seneca I want senators however yesterday I don't know at the they're a -- -- -- -- David territory info on those oval would just leave it that it had -- -- the Mohawk -- -- I know that if they -- a bit different -- And it is so. Look at a couple things lots of talk about but. One of the main things. We're talking especially with these guys we've ices them. Worked the puck over history but we're gonna talk about how. The -- kind of get twisted around about. You about how about our territories and and in places that particular -- -- -- Wanda and on a dogma. You've you've there's this sense that somehow that these are these bastions of of a a strict traditional. -- long house communities. And they fail to recognize the fact that that christianity. Has been a major part of that community as well known about -- several churches and all about it it's not just the law calls them. In internal auditors. How many churches there in Taiwan. One mounted just one now of these few couples in the so and and of course. Faster dean your your involvement church let's hear that your church -- We're gonna talk about that but it worked a little and our history that some things. Straight for the record you know and and it's this isn't the dog belong house and and it's not my intention to dog you know. People who believe in in in christianity. I don't hear your Mormon under -- frankly. I end up having more issues. When I release didn't get put so far to so much in the forefront. That your that your identity as a neat person. Starts to be pushed to the back and and that's where. You went in world. We know that when you about it there for -- -- in the throes of fighting for sovereign all the time. And the fact that your that your Christian -- or -- court handsomely or or your annual or your guardian article of long house or your former. That and -- taking a little bit of a backseat to the back the senate and that an end and and again I'm not just give you give your. You know let you guys are not that the explain your identity for you but. When we when we're in the throes of these kinds of struggle for identity as native people. I don't have any reason to cause separation say or do what you can't speak because you know because you're families in this you can't speak because. Your -- believes that. That's not a position that I take. But I know that we hear that kind of like and that's that's part of what I wanna have a conversation about today and and and I -- because he thought I assume you don't mind. Because I think this is 83 -- the useful conversation. To put things in its proper perspective without getting into. This idea of exclusionary territories because frankly. Our history our culture is about inclusion the whole -- route to peace saying you know this that the whole idea that we're all equal. That seems to have somehow. Left us and and granted. Part of the reason that some of that stuff has left us has been because of of assimilation. Now and christianity as some of the religions are part of that assimilation. But the some of the worst parts of of assimilation are at the -- on the deciding thing the thing that would push wind to decide. And that we've we tried to create this this hierarchy within our territories about leadership verses the common person. And and yet. For me when I look at somebody's spiritual a spiritual beliefs. Most of those spiritual police don't -- -- support that ideology. You know and there's been times where it's been interpreted that way. But Allen is I I talk about the doctor person discovery here condemn it would it would all my heart I condemned the doctors discovered. That's got nothing to do with condemning Christiane because that doctor and is not borne out of the old testament per say there are some things that can interpret in the real testament that that sound you know very. Discriminatory. As Ali. I have have talked to people over the years and as I've seen even the church evolved and what I -- the third largest -- catheters. Eat eat eat you look at -- things like you know we're reproductive rights and gay rights and in human rights and follows. A lot of that stuff that the evolved over the years so. Again as part of the conversation we're gonna -- and -- spent a good deal of time talking about the Bobby uses -- you're new here so let me tell you that to our show. So there's plenty kinda talked even though it seems like I talk a lot and I do. You look up idiot I've. The way you saw that -- I just -- kind of set the stage for what we're about myself. Well done we've had this discussion thank -- -- having a -- and I don't know recently talked about well last albeit started a new year and things that are coming up in the New Year's. We need to do but. More importantly. Let's talk native -- we have a lot of non native listeners. And their shoulders. And for repeat because for. For once we're giving them native side of an issue out -- to the general public criminal. A lot of people are saying I want both engines think about the survey think about that. They have their show here too. We talk about the -- you talk a ball those things and and you know the idea. You know I told Robert here you know obit here click the call shout people in this room -- -- solve all the oral problems that. And that's what we goal over here. So -- I have and it's always been our intention to stimulate thought. Stimulate conversation. Well weeks is implode believers our own private believe -- now private thoughts. But they are there believe by by more than -- of ourselves there's a group of people that believe certain things. And so to clarify that I've noticed that the news spill over here. Your show has had. Fact you can exceed -- the results have been on FaceBook. Somebody mentions something that you have done you poster blogs where you've been in what you talked about. Although weakened -- video on the -- -- trip that you made to Arizona. All communication. And everything technology is gone that far ahead and and you know workers using that malware while you're using it very well would form a whole northeast with with your -- new York and over in Albany and here and so. Looking at the other side of the coin had -- FaceBook there's been a lot of courtesy of W went on to the doctrine proofed and discovery. And you know like not that the Internet among native people are so large malt -- Native Christians should be the Mormon the protectors and and you mentioned earlier bought the churches that Tom along what I grew up. Or -- approached her and her. About the future. A most of -- Long hello and mormons. And there was interaction between all of them people would go to our literature -- -- long for years from from the dances and and to the Baptist and there was communities and promote that didn't go to church. That is openers since 1940. And although we're small. You know everybody could to sort of what they want to move with all being. Lee bulls or or in the box and a matter of some options change now all. Maybe in the last 2030 years where knowledge your Christian not considered in the. Well I'm an an an -- part of the thing. What -- eat there's a sense and and this is but it was stronger in some communities and others and and there's no question about that did this the sentiment. That somehow. The the long house is a church. In fact I've seen -- -- they say as usual mr. religion. And people all right and long house is a religion. -- -- -- -- -- Which is people translated degree -- peace and Reynolds that if they look different so on mohawks. Good to Doggett thought I think if you say it with a couple more popular. So -- an article up. It doesn't really mean great copies -- it means 888. A path include a great path. Or a great way. And it's in the way is of is designed. As a way to solve problems so it's it's it's the almost is more than conflict resolution. But it it's a way of living life. That you -- -- in Indian -- -- article it talks about things like you know ceremonies Thanksgiving but even even non cameras like what marriage in and funerals and that kind of stuff. It's not me down. It's gonna a wobble. And and and when people say the great law PC and I've heard people say while while -- -- the 127. -- justice in this and it's not a codified. Set of laws but but it does lay out things in -- and on -- for the whole lot of ball we are. Some of -- metaphor in some of it is is very specific by having said that. There isn't anything in the specific language of of the an article that condemns. How people view things spiritual. And and it isn't a spiritual. Document. There's a lot of references to creation in and metaphors associate with creation so when I was so I don't mr. treat long house. As a religion now what happened about a 150 years ago. He is this are resurgent or are there develop this. We'll -- people keep the -- -- religion which was the other guy very Leo via the court handsomely. -- -- -- You know -- did that at the turn of the century but by 1820s. Or something like that this thing start to have you know gain some some traction. And so. Many people don't even know there's a distinction between the code of handsome lake. Or are going we'll. And and degree loft these are her of the danger of gore. So what -- and and that has -- and that guy we feel that that -- had a lot of Quaker influence. But at the same time. You actually candidate territories a lot of -- cold sheets that way that had that were Christian. That had accepted some form of christianity and it wasn't a conflict it didn't pro preclude. A long house from functioning as a system. Of a decision making for the people like -- you Lee Parker was it was a Christian. People normally they they recognize them as a as a historical figure he was also a guy who who fought with the union army he I think he was a Mason he would you try it got a law degree but then couldn't was allowed to take the bar and so this is the guy. That people look at historically and say he is how native was this guy. Well pretty good because you don't think because that you could look at the way you lead and he he grubby it English was so even what's his. Most dominant language I mean. I think he went to. English speaking schools -- mis educated very well educated. And yet everybody knows that he was that he that he was a significant. Person within -- dismissed with a with a -- of 1% well. Harlem comments that are because. Next week Wednesday I'm going to be starting my 73 year if it makes an older. I don't I -- elder -- -- little but now there is inaudible we joke about can you remember the middle last century. Released mobile -- But no my grandfather was -- two feet and you'll also Christian. And my great -- damaged just expert served on council the Lee Parker who was also Christian. And I have a lot of letters and documents. In my family they're a good record keepers. That can document and this and and I can prove -- -- When you hear these people say you know what you can't do this because of that origin be it -- because I I can only fear that it was the wrong. And you know -- Whether it was proper or not you can -- and and and what I would suggest that it what I would submit is that people would have you believe. That there never was the case that but the historical record. Sets a very very clear that it was now. And in part of the reason for having this conversation and and we will get into orbit will take a break a -- of the -- clear -- familiar. But part of the reason for even. Having this conversation. He's so we can kind of make some of that stuff that that people use as as weapons to separate us try to make some ethical way now. But because I'll I'll I'll say very clearly in an and I -- I consider myself along I consider myself -- opponent says that. And in saying and doing so and and saying so. I will always have an issue when somebody says. While I have experts who believed that based on this belief system that Al paired with the -- and the way conquer it's if mr. fear out there -- of its. Judaism. Hinduism. Islam whatever but if somebody says I cannot follow -- -- an article because of what I believe. Then to me that's somebody else saying OK that's that summary -- themselves but it's not always the person and enter into a long house. And if you would begin -- going there with a good mind. And and not come in with with with so with this layer after layer earlier preconceptions that won't allow them to speak to somebody. One allow them console one allow them to work. You two together your might be a part of gather their minds together. Then that's where for me -- where this was an obstacle and and let's be clear. States have done. I don't think that's where we are today. And that's why we're here is to educate to me it was back in the seventies it was a director of cultural -- art and craft program on the one. Under the title for part B which is the GW of the government their educational part. And that the long -- and as well as what should be it was a meetingplace. Well for religious purposes it was not immediately for social purposes analyst at a push for the government so it's served three in three capacity but even. A ceremony long but even ceremonies are what we call ceremonies are. Are not religious sacraments there after a function of keeping things there function of doing things that bring people together and I think. That was good but now I'm not -- I don't spend a show talking about. I I don't preach Christian dogma I don't preach long -- dogma. What talked about is he's trying to have a conversation now having said that. Well on the that was similar to my disclaimer now. People have no. There is no need for everybody to agree with -- -- city exactly I offer of you I offered opinions but also try to have a conversation because I think. This competition and again we've got a lot of time to do it will take some breaks you ready right now we elect. We're gonna we're gonna have conversation. That somebody can say you know I heard something surreal and I think the point with me. I didn't agree with that one by I agree with this one or maybe -- -- a little -- -- -- that's what I wanna see it happen. Tennessee property open mind to. And that's it that's just it that's just feels that's the -- -- we're gonna take a break and we're gonna come -- this again I've got Bobby -- incident I've got although I've lived there word yet. And look at. About -- did have gotten Ellsbury is got a different -- it is done game will be right back. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You're -- -- goes sells discounted tobacco products and convenience items can provide full service gas. For a quick Phillip from the southern tier stuff -- iroquois gas and go open from 6 AM till 10 PM every day. Your shortstop for saving his iroquois gas and go. For the best prices in your favorite tobacco products and more it's -- he's emporium in orbit. Siobhan Hughes -- -- -- does she -- cigar wraps rolling papers accessories detox lines and the lowest prices on tobacco products allowed. Ask about their smokeless line with starter -- starting at 35 dollars sign up for the new Mikey is club card for additional storewide savings my -- emporium. Just five minutes makes it 5820. In -- open seven days a week from seven to eleven. Like the Mike he's emporium -- page on FaceBook for notification but events and specials. Call 7165497888. Or go online at Mike he's emporium dot com but how would be an express and sweet in Salamanca New York is the only national hotel on the Allegheny territory of the Seneca nation. Jorge -- includes a free continental breakfast shuttle service to and from the -- Allegheny casino every thirty minutes. And the excellent quality you expect from the holiday incorporation. The -- oblivion express since we've also reached a fitness room he indoor pool spot and more called them today 7169457600. And stay Smart with polity and express and sweet. It's from Buffalo, New York in the historic homeland of the Seneca let's talk negative rides on the power of the ESPN 1520 powerhouse signals up and down on the East Coast of turtle island. Join the discussion on let's talk -- -- -- your host John King. All right thanks to go back this giant game is let's not native to look out Ottawa I've beaten before we get back into it I gotta make a couple of announcements that. I use some of this time to talk about me. I write for the -- -- that I do a column. And and the columns are about me but I write them I write a column every single week if you go to -- -- times dot com on and just click on the the columns have. And look for the let's talk made about my column Newton goes within titles to show -- looks like me. I'd look out every week and I've done a column every week since the paper started started August and -- -- -- every single week. Are keeping -- and have writer's block when we imminent rhyme or something to say I don't let us on the disabled. Saying something on the air and writing it because you eat you kind of get that you're thoughtful more clearly. Right sometimes the Knuble their little more difficult ice it right it. And post supplement blog which is native pride on a weekly basis laced you put something you a couple of times a week if that's Wendell a lot of things were happening. But I kind of backed off of how often I was some meeting they post on my blog. Until. I start regulatory time so now idol column every week and the column is getting pretty good traction not only do does get posted here is not go only to the print. But two times dot com put posted on their their website -- morale with censored news posted on hers I posted on my blog every week. -- iPad government officials read these things you know I I I -- my blogs like no. Not who the individuals marvel what -- ASP. Logged on my blog and I called a trifecta when I might have these. Department of justice department of homeland security and the Treasury Department ever have three federal agencies on one and I'm one day that governor trifecta. And I've had that happened several times. I've had I hit the White House I had the our executive office of the president United States logged on I don't know what was it -- -- -- manner that they wanted but. But I had people log on -- I know some of the stuff that I right. -- -- I know this show has been heard all my shows to post on my block. I'm of course I'm on on FaceBook as well. I have a FaceBook group page which is let's talk native would with John McCain I encourage people to join the FaceBook group page dumb I'm gonna hit 4000 probably this week. Councilman hated it overnight once they -- the thirty under probably 4000 is this week that's quite a few people just don't like -- like pages but the numbers that the group pages you actually have to. Request to be a member and an and I post on myself there others post on this is a lot of good information on their. But I but I find that did the columns are right there are only you know 800 to a thousand words. Date they -- is burdensome is reading you know I'll book the art is burdensome sometimes is sitting and listening to much over two hours or. You know whether alive or otherwise this is something that's -- -- to take with them they can look at these things and say. You know that's a good point and and the big columns of got a lot -- Kuerten who take a look at of course they do the show every week. But I'm also in. Got to show is under my belt as the as the new host. For first voices indeed it is radio in New York City that's on WBA guys at 99 point five. -- -- WB -- dot org. You can catch those shows that's the one hour show. So if somebody doesn't do it with -- three for two hours. But they can tolerate me for an hour than -- in the first was yeah it was a one hour this is totally up. To which -- they awarded kept me -- at a New York City. And I make the rounds I didn't I did Martha -- or show this that this past week in their errors in Minneapolis Saint Paul market. And that was a really good show we talked to a lot of stuff real fast and in fact -- name but a time these two we're done we've attacked and a few of those things as well. But down and I want to address those things because. As double. As you suggest that I'm trying to create and forums as in as many places like hand for a conversation they take place. Time and time again even I saw some of the post after the Martha that's for sure this this week and again the Minneapolis. And and I stop people from out there who who said mean that was really great show -- I've never heard this guy before. And he's hitting a lot of things that that that we think that we never seen said before or put out there so. And again I'm not this isn't so much about John McCain trying to build a following as much as me trying to get a message out there I don't care -- -- remember that I said. But it is something here or something here that encourages them to have a conversation that breakfast lunch or dinner or the next time they get together. And I think some more talking about here this is the this is they needed conversation you know before the -- there's there's some guys in -- from from a doctor that that have a one hour ago. And so I don't talk about religion a -- here but in this situation it's not as much about talking about religion although Bobby I don't wanna want to weigh in a little bit because. I want to they said in the the first segment was. I have noticed. I mean and I'm -- -- there's you know I've I've. I was baptized in the Catholic. So I've seen how even the Catholic Church has evolved over the years and for better -- the places but but I've seen how. How this strict. Almost like the evangelical. You know and and that almost as is conservative. You know marker or. Thought it would now it didn't always but -- I I see how that's changed and I know. Things like -- sexuality and women's rights but but even some of the prejudice. I mean. I I know that if you read you -- certain passages from the old testament. There are people that have to have used. In interpretation of those things to justify slavery. They used to forget to justify taking and obviously that I -- with a doctor or discovery but a lot of charges of repudiated that. And even given repudiated. The old testament. But I think things are interpret a little there and maybe you could weigh in on and on. On you since you've been involved in in in in this business that that this is you know. How how how have you seen how did your church in particular how you your training. Has evolved a little bit on and how you deal with. With some things that were probably a lot more. Divisive. Thirty years ago that today. Well it's first vote on message and it's -- to be and your show but -- appreciate that. -- world property that's. Christianity. Has been around on a race for a long time the church pastor. Started in 1820. And so far back as it came into our territories. To say about the old testament and the New Orleans yes you could take the Bible and you can make it mean what you want it to mean. And you could actually. Probably murder somebody because you read something in the Bible the Bible -- history book. For for one and it talks about. People. And their ways. Not so much that god. Made them do those things. People decided to do them and all -- wanted to do was communicate. To us down here and so. By way of communication. Which we're doing right now is communicating. Something that happened and transpired. That we could not explain as union people. We we saw. We didn't see but in our history. In the hospice of christianity. Are people were hurt so we still live with it today it's still alive and so. No matter what religion and wanna talk of well there's there's always forgiveness. And that's hard. That's a hard thing to do. When you look back in history. And I would say that if we could get there. We would be a better people. One in on that no I mean even even two days. Utilized him -- a bit of forgiveness and and in a lot of native cultures and and and back and -- -- -- -- it worked specifically for forgiveness but what there is. And and I used this this analogy because it was taught me from guys that although wrong. What we talk about is how you resolved and how you get past so so you you you you take up an issue. And you you resolve to to settle that issue in -- move past now that's not just about crime and punishment that's not about. You know adjudicating. Justice it's about how -- -- people and and fourth. The note that I entered a boy and in the in the long haul was about that it was a cult it was a -- console with a S not with a C. So it was a -- how you get through this up and and and and when I look at a lot of the fates you know the faith based religions. They still come at something from a place of of of achieving a certain level of righteousness making things right. And that's and and and and I no I'm not -- school year ago I I've I know enough about that nick had epic but it. But there but you're right -- what's happened is and historically. In and I'm not talking about -- In our lifetime but historically. There's always going to be some of those people and we see in in today's conflicts whether it's futile effort is commerce Judaism or christianity. People used. Com an extreme or fundamentalist view of their of their. Spirituality. To justify doing some pretty heinous things and and write native people have been. Victims of a lot of -- and it wasn't just because of one -- for another and its -- it was. Yeah it oftentimes you gives you -- to tell the people used to church. Not just the deterred from using them and -- and and but he's so we see that. But we -- the place where and one that we -- talk about in the last you know harder 150 years you know more you know -- 200 years. We know that we've coexisted our territories with with. A diverse thoughts on on spirituality. And and a lot of times each. Faith has influenced the other and I would argue that the court of -- has has some very strong. Christian components to. Now but there are also still plenty people and I'm not just from atheist but the repeat her crew of we're always referred to -- -- and in fact my good friend Steve -- was a night. Show in Ireland to a New York this past week. His book is call pagan in the promised and what talks about how. That clash of cultures to place. When when you could have people of faith say while we are titled something where the ones that are not a -- Art and the crazy part is. When you look at places like you know unity and I'm picking out -- tunnel want to. We've got to see a role reversal happened where all of a -- be what they while we're look down on the and what are those people of faith because. World -- of the strict you know belief system based in on long golf. That allows us to somehow. Exclude them and that's where I wanna see some this conversation go gardening. That started this thing med journal our purposes to educate them form. Well people and that the people that are listening courts want to hear what the impetus the state. And when I figured I listen I think we all talk about her own personal experiences. And we should be thinking one a little bit more maybe. About the listeners that are out there those people that are listening. We talk about them vote on the -- we talk about the future to -- room we know that what we have a lot of listeners out there that. That bill -- or talk and -- and I think the difference being. Is there we are native which it did come from this country of that country kick OPEC of this country today cut. This is our country that means. More to -- MF of people I don't think -- understand and in this process. This Europeans. Christianity it it was brought in not to say that there wasn't won here before. But and so we need to be on a -- a little more think about that the audience that's listening for the understand that in. In a lot of ways you know were really no different than them were were experiencing the progress in the changes that's happened everybody can be yours you know book. I like where the fiscal. Well let's take a break here and welcome welcome back is worth about an hour now and I won't use of the next by the problem. From so so quickly located we're gonna get -- back into it after about an hour here this is gigantic about it he is the area got Noble's permit the government won't deal with that -- it will -- back. Let's talk native -- John King is produced every week in association with iroquois promotions. You're a boy promotions is a native company located on the catalog is territory of the Seneca nation. You're a boy promotions brings a combined fifteen years of emotional experience in professional and amateur sporting event and entertainment. 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OJ's has a wide variety of tax free tobacco products plus roll your own supplies tubes papers smoke -- candles and special request products like -- close premium cigars and more blue -- smoking gas now with Seneca nation fishing licenses and accessories. Open every day for -- to late at 2111 west perimeter road steamer on the beautiful Allegheny territory of the Seneca nation. Call 71635. Fours 64354. OJ smoking gas. Thanks for coming back to let's talk native a phone line is open for you it's 71680315. Money. Here's let's start native post John McCain. All right that's going back to -- and the phone lines are open you can call 80315. One even if they want to display the conversation. I do have gotten I have some great guest in studio. I've been able to bring it to him Bobby DNC a pastor Bobby -- and studio. The worth of government deals with with this week as well. An and we're what we're trying to do is trying to set a little bit of a historical records for. In doing so what I'm trying to talk about is. Eight and what are these I talk about the show -- lot is is about inclusion. Now when I say inclusion. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't let something. Something. Fairly arbitrary say okay. You can't be a part of this conversation because your mother was this story or or or you know you go to literature. Or are where growth. -- you know for me. As long as somebody's belief system does you know I guess that in the first segment. Doesn't preclude them from being able to console doesn't preclude them from being able to sit as as as the only way. And and resolve and and stand together on issues that we need to stand together on. Help us resolve the conflict that happened our territory. I mean I think this is where we can. Be our own worst enemy because you find excuses. To either dislike each other or to alienate each other and and the fact of the matter is. We're physically kind of -- remove anybody from our territory we got about you know on a famous for banishing people that never really go anywhere so so it's. And an end and again that I'm Antarctica in the community and proud about that but it but it's an example that and so. I I guess when when we go back and story and you realize that that would be in our territories. It was never. Historically. It was never this. A strong sense to say you can't be this you can't believe in this you you can't. You can't pick of the -- you can't be a Christian. We never had that in -- and it's not and the guy in -- boy. What there isn't -- guy in article is that is a sense that. You can't put something -- -- in front. And and again make it so it precludes you from being who you are otherwise you're probably more you know YouTube you -- right now. Now -- and -- you know this isn't about. Saying. You know this -- ranking. You know where your sanity is or. You know -- yes but but I know you guys. And the and the first thing that somebody -- -- when you're down by yourself EZ -- numbers of us. You say I'm bill what church do you -- -- -- -- union Baptist OK so you don't take you the first of the law on the baptists. I mean that's not that you'll the first thing that we you know if I -- -- dialogue on -- of analog in and you want to come on one so. We are clear and even. As we're in the united community now what we delve into little a little farther we might find out that the noble but Republicans for your a pastor Richard for. Or that you know -- may have some families you know you know that or are -- -- My father's. Side was was Catholic I mean. But regardless of all that. When we -- when we come together and as we have come together over the years on W and I've been you know we've been close for a long time. And -- I can't recall ever. In all of the years that you and I have been so if it was I'd never -- and and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't ever call your faith being a problem between several. And an end and and so the thing is even as we stood side by side and -- and I've been there for your family in we've -- I mean. There's never been an issue with that. And yet however others do. Now and I've heard others do that you. And so to me that's what's bizarre so even as -- -- here or stickier as it that as a strong. You know -- got to get warrior you know -- of those going to the hospital mohawks. That's -- I'm not a year. He's a religious enough fighting a religious battle I'm not fighting it was delegate anybody and I'm not fighting it's enough by the within my territory that was along people. I will stand up against things that have at that our our but from discrimination and and racism. And and -- that the people use things from for a face and again it the easiest thing to point out is obviously. The the boarding schools that had -- to talk about. I I wrote Paul once they had on the top my blog and an out of active. Can recite -- but what refers to with the men in black growth. And those first -- black -- were the commissioners. Then the met next man in black -- there for two that it that word fatigue damage are you were those -- those. Teachers those those priests in those in the supporting schools and now those men in black robes or are the judges that are -- -- pass judgment. Now. Having several. You know I don't there's plenty of people who. Have I mean -- when we talk about in in marker courier retired so and identity and the -- Ripa. She just got. -- became a saint in the last year and the Vatican -- thing. He was not anti -- -- -- against the rule people heated heated user fees as a as they and they weapon do you want to against the people. And vice Versa I mean so I guess is where we come back to an and I -- bodies where you know as as we talk about how. You know. Not only has -- been a bit of a role reversal were you had a certain certain circumstance where you had the dominant society outside that was that was of -- Christian faith. The kind of look down at the pagan people. And united coming to a situation where. The you know the senses that did that to be native means he means almost at the attackers and and that's not true is it true and yet we see some communities that way. So I I guess you know how. I'm do you have any thoughts on on Howell. That evolution. You know comes within. Even not just with the need to be repeated again. How the church has become more and Anna and these were tolerant of that that that the -- worth overused but I guess for lack of a world use that. The churches -- a develop and and all of the the denominations. Have developed a level of tolerance that is changed from what it once did when you had the fire and brimstone. And the attitude that you had did. Get rid of that the Indian out of the you know we've got to kill the Indians say the man kind of thing I mean and and and that's certainly not. I suspect that's not the way YouTube preaching your church. It's all based on relationship. It's -- church doctrine of money you said you -- will be in good friends for -- time. A man who knows your good friend. It's based on relationship. So my relationship. That -- Wanda. It is. Based on. I care for them. And they care for me and it's not just words. We show than we care for one another whether yearlong house or Christian. There's always going to be someone who says. I don't like to christianity down or get revenue. Then somebody steps up and says wait a minute. He's one of us. We're together. You know I am my mother's my mother was a tunnel on the Seneca. Of the wolf Klein. So I am I'm a member of the wolf -- So we. As Christians respect our clan mothers are chiefs. Will be. To give them. -- with which with a Bible says respect those in authority it doesn't necessarily mean that we agree with everything that's gonna. And even on your show there might be things that I say years you may say I don't necessarily agree that but. We have a voice we have an opportunity to share what we know. And how we understand life. And I know that the fire and brimstone. It's not gonna work among our people. So the only way that I am gonna share. My faith. Is by action. By doing something so we opened that your chip not just for services. It was. We started to celebrate recovery program on Thursday night's. And most people think it was drug and alcohol and there -- -- And we had some of our people come. And they said this is nice now. We start with a little music. And then somebody gives a teaching and celebrate recovery and how to deal with -- years we've heard habits and hang ups mean wherever there whatever there. And we've had long most people in there. And it Goran -- and all my name's Bob I'm a Christian I belonged to Jesus the next person would say. Oh my name and so on so their long -- but they're not gonna say that -- you know they're just gonna say. -- name yet but it. But they feel. Welcome. As they're trying to get help for a situation in their life. That they can't get over. So it's her have meaning doesn't have to be. Drugs and alcohol. So the comment that came always. You know I can't come to church and Sunday but come on Thursday. So I said. On Thursday at the building but on Sunday at they discover that. I said Angela Thursday justice likes. It's this. I've you know I've gone to. Different like Maggie Williams does so a lot of stuff and she works with -- from the for organizations. As a place to. To hold meetings and I've been some you know vote -- last time that went to a doctor for discovery that it was that one of them I think was that one of the united for truth in them. In buffalo and so they actually host the events break there at that the effort that -- talk about repudiating eight. One a bit of wonder -- the long held -- and I I think. You know but for me. That relationships are if we even we go back to what we call them on -- with -- or the senate he he probably -- -- Which is kind of like this the opening words you step. That is all about relationships and of course the relationships are not just about human relationships about relations with everything. An and I think. For me. I don't substitute the word. Create your you know mail but you know even though we have a creation story. That's the story. I talked -- creation. And and in doing so I'm not alienated -- alienating those people who. Choose to -- -- personification. Of that power creation whether it's Christian -- -- -- anybody's. Because when you double the power creation somebody can say okay. I'm speaking to them even though I'm not saying guys are real all law or order so when -- with a power -- It's open to interpretation. But for me as as a again as a venerable. Person. That relationship. Has to you know all those relationships. It is about not just the power of the beauty but the power. That we don't know that I don't know. In eighty -- down -- beginning one of these religion helped do. -- solve some of them at the mysteries that you had it gave answers even at the answers on McQueen purses in the world because a lot of those -- left of the interpretation. For me. I'm never one of those people who feel like I I had to have answers for everything. There's something that that are left undone and and and in Mike culture in the way I it was it was brought up in the way I understand is that there are there are things that we will never know. And and I think all all -- it is to just that thinking -- we we we talk about having faith and that faith is easy to. Embraced the unknown with a certain amount of security. You not necessarily a good even weather in the Bible or Ernie -- there are parables that account -- some of the unknown now. But they're not necessarily. At the way I interpreted you can -- wrong. They're not necessarily always your instinct with here's the definitive answer on everything you know now. Undated the do you think that's that's certainly true it's fairly true I mean I -- other specific answers in the Bible for certain. Things that are our army -- mysteries yes. But but I don't see where there's a conflict there right I mean for those of us who. Are OK with there being some mystery vs those who want to have a definitive answer on reducing the know what's what's the core. So why. We would have. This distinction on terrorism issue between Christian -- swine is there a line of demarcation line. Why do column as it because we're afraid of losing our territories. We've losing and if would be perhaps that went on that was true if -- -- we bumped from become Christian. Where were turning our back on our traditional ways. But in actuality or not. We're just saying. We have. A belief system. And in god we can get to know personally. Well relationship let's talk what that because I I wanna talk about how. A faith. Arm. For one how in some instances in the key utilized to turn back on truthfully because that lying to -- place. And why that was never necessary I want talk what that and I think that that's a good point and I am glad you brought that pollute without whether we come back. Again I've got Bobby -- in -- and and that's who's this speaking. He did the pastor of again it's the Baptist church on -- -- Wanda. Territories scientists. I've been able -- -- government goes through this John -- -- thought they -- -- UB. Glad you took the time to stop and say that the your quick smoke shop on the counter -- its territory of the Seneca nation. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The -- -- smoke shop is a full service convenience store and gas station providing discount tobacco products gas diesel and propane. The convenience stores open from 6 AM to 10 PM daily but the gas pumps and pump house are open 24 hours seven days a week. Peter quick smoke shop -- -- -- the let's talk native with John King show on KV 1520. Size does matter to policing their tobacco accessory shop proves it with the largest selection of unique to. -- -- and hand blown glass pieces in Western New York. From last two wood to metal they got all the finest pipes as well as who gets tapestries. Wild very incense sticks nag -- sense of incense candles and so much more didn't he get the naughty side of the police -- -- with great bachelorette party gift some more. The policing their tobacco accessory shop in the building formerly known as -- racing. Behind the red smoke shop on Bloomingdale's in the tunnel on to -- territory. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Or from Buffalo, New York in the historic homeland of the -- and let's talk native rides on the power of ESPN 1520 powerhouse signal often down the East Coast of turtle island. Join the discussion on let's talk -- -- -- your host John McCain. All right that dog back but you just over the break we -- we're getting to a place that I thought was that if you conversation. And and what it what talks about is. -- or probably it was turning your back on your under traditional beliefs are are are your traditional ways what he -- -- -- there's always. I come at things from an angle that I don't believe. That. Debt even if you have. And again. This can be broken down even into what would have been through the menaces like these because. Those were were very much in the in the realm of of spiritual belief America as the -- some of that stuff was really geared towards that. But not everybody was a part of that but that would preclude somebody from have a relationship because they. You know maybe -- family part of department -- the -- so synching with with with Christian belief. I don't see where. There would have been a conflict for Christian to go to a strawberry serve our festival. Or are her green -- Or planting or any of that stuff it seems that those there though it could interpret those things not as religious sacraments within that'll belong house church. I interpret those things as a way it was explained to me in the -- icon in the is that those are celebrations. A certain parts of the year that through this -- -- the very things we talk about what DO -- agree with Aqua. The of the great things that we acknowledge -- creation. Providing certain whether it's the maple that we're going to be doing yours alone or when we get into the thunder that we're just acknowledging certain parts of the year and our relationship. To what we experience as we go -- and and those those the seven and a you know is working with a seven major. Thanksgiving. Are based on making sure that we in and here's the reason we do. We don't do that for for us we do for our children. So they understand the value of 00 and and and so. I don't see any place any any any part of that conversation or anything that ever that I've ever been taught by by the people that I respect. Where this sizzle could -- you can't go there because you know -- group viewers for term you know granted it. If you've got to decide where you're going along house -- go to church on Sunday it's on at 9 o'clock in the morning I guess you but that's not. The long house decide. That's the individual thing you know I. I'm gonna do this number of that orbit do this and not so I don't see where the feats. Caused us to have. To turn our back they thought you know at least the -- When when you talk about coming on repairs are going now. I just want to pick up on something here that been I don't wanna I wanna be quick about it I'm being older I grew up on -- -- Acceptable to applicable to go to long -- -- go to the church and an either or wherever. And I think that the greatest thing that I experienced back then or even hope hope to. 3540 years ago -- you had. And we're given the freedom of choice. To to do and believe however you want to win and you touched on that about being sovereign. And it's based upon of course our corporate and our environment and things that. We had a choice and the word good colts. Wrong is one who want to be a part of the group and people don't accept your opinion because if you believe what to what would what to do. And we need to break away from and you mentioned that you're you're you're texting and in the there is that we need to work together we. In that people survive it's very important that we work together in -- along. I am but and and and and having said that -- and there's no question that. There were certain things imposed on our people from the outside in the name of the book of of faith I mean obviously an -- Had you ever of whom you talk about the aid in the recovery stuff the -- -- -- there's still what we call generational trauma that was born out of the -- residential schools which were very very much tied. You know two into the churches and and and you know tunnel Wanda was among those communities were to -- kids were poll I meant you were pulled out of follow Wanda. To go to Thomason is Oregon New York Carlisle or wherever -- Bobbie -- that have you had to deal with any. Not only people who. Came through that Europe but even the -- -- have you ever had to address city that's up -- their tunnel on that all. Early on administrative burden in on the last fifteen years have been -- 34 years wouldn't. And I grew up in time no one can. So. How it was explained to me by traditional chiefs in my plan mother was dead. If you went away for college. And came back. To help your people that's how they look. So I came back and help my people. Not to change them. Then but to help them then and now. It's it's been its work over the years yes I have had two. You know different ones would say while he's Christian you you know. We need to get rid of the church then but then some an alarmist which benefits -- We're all going and we no matter if we're Christian along. So there's that. Maybe worry we may be losing that track. Was an -- and clearly. You couldn't you see historically how they rub. You know curse but -- -- him but but we didn't get to the place and this is my point even be even prior residential schools and and then. After that we're. We still -- knowledge that there that there are people that are territories that that have diverse. There's you know -- or are religious views. And we did is seem like we had gone through that but I look at the last thirty years where people have become. Oftentimes more divisive about that Anne and -- and I. Even even under acknowledging what residential schools represented that was not our people fighting our people in fact. I I think the right sometimes I'm baffled when -- when I ask somebody at that -- people and you're talking about. Keep Burke from a teacher's college I -- -- you know you've got to be research explained to me how it down. How did they reconcile. The than the notion of Thomas in his school already the other residents of goals against the backdrop of up. Emerging churches on our territory I can see how that would work but also the emerging. Court of handsome Laker great wheel or in the Seneca nation situation and emerging government that was you re constitutional wise. You know in 1840 or whatever was that they you know so. With when you had chiefs. And you had a constitutional government you had various. Churches that order -- -- that competing for the purple I guess that would that would that -- for end. You had. A native religion. And of course you had some people who. Worried none of those votes. How did you wonder how something that people will pretty much agree one was not a good thing the the residential school Europe. And nobody ever the devoted to for that and that that's to be pretty quick look at some of the historic record that I talked few wars story on this that. Then it's almost like this Serb part of our history that people don't wanna visit and and it's not up to me he. Two. You have to cut throwing people's faces but what I'm saying is you we can't pretend. That. The conflicts that we're having today. Warm dealt with in some way. You know 30405000. Years ago. And so how much are we creating. Almost an artificial conflict over some of the stuff and and that's where I get concerned about. The divisive this that -- Parker there's no reason that that you know that everybody can't get along the way now allied. -- We we don't. Come from the same spiritual belief system. And yet we stood side by side each other for thirty years on on a lot of issues. You know. About being native. And -- Aso ahead it you know and Obama about things like family and that kind of stuff we've. We've we've been up parallel track side by side with each other armored car with -- other all these years. And not just double and I mean guys who are no more strong long hauls people and guys like no. Who were or other other you know strong -- I mean you you now or mean. You've done good work in in the community of phone -- And so when I'm saying. When I guess my message in in the reason I wanna do this show is I want to demonstrate how. We need to stop using those things as the excuses that separate. And do as much as we can. Gizbert you know if you check all the did a proverbial you know test where you. With all the things that you agree on all things you don't you disagree on that things -- that was the things we agree gone. Even if it's a bit even if it isn't based on our our faith. You know creation I mean the nature there's not a whole lot in in the church. In the church doctrine that talks about. You know protecting endangered species. A whole lot there is more -- in long -- That the -- deployed in the and and our our stories that talk about that there's more of that there. But but they are just -- it's not there doesn't mean that in that. Christians don't. About that they've sent. The wherever wrapping up our what we're gonna go back we're gonna talk more on this stuff. Great first hour. Everybody stay tuned we're gonna get into a little and I think we do a study that without well talk about a couple of cases that. Transpire over the last couple weeks that are relevant to him. Commerce and again so we'll talk about those as we go to do. -- John gave his let's talk native will be right back after this. Buffalo's home -- I know.