Maybe it's time for buffalo means business -- your host buffalo radio veteran and local business that's a good buddy Shula. Buffalo means business is the hour long weekly radio show that spotlights local business. This morning's it was brought you by doctor Bob dental care for worry free dentistry -- your nearest doctor Bob -- And Mike copier fax business technology -- the whole first document diligence. If you look like a business featured on this show please call 8430167. That's 8430167. Now your host bloody -- Good morning and welcome back to another edition of buffalo means business year and ESPN radio my name is forty Shula. And I'm joined by MI out partner in crime here Paul my -- who is the who's the chairman every tree Western New York here in no Western New York. And now we have a show devoted an education today this is a great show because I'm here with two very important good guys Kerry Olson. Who's the president of Damon college in Amherst. And also -- Rogan who's the vice president of academic affairs and the dean of the college so this is kind of -- real good well -- it's segment here about education with Damon college and a great name like Damon. Gary you were and now back in September so you're that good -- to -- better equipment that's right to turn it reform. Ago. It's a good morning to both of you. Thank you thanks for -- -- -- -- a little but -- college. And the history of -- here in buffalo. Okay well Damon was created. Under a different name in 1947. It was called grocery -- college it was a Catholic college to the sisters of Saint Francis. Began. Began in one building which we still have called grocery hole now. And it was this kind of an exclusive college for young women. And quickly got a very good to reputation for our quality. And started to expand with more buildings and so and and somewhere and in 1970s. It became. Co educational and a non religious college. And it got its name at that time to him in college. Now today. It's still very high quality. We have about 3000 students. We offer. Not only -- undergraduate degrees but masters and and a few doctoral degrees. And we even have some graduate to degrees offered in Brooklyn -- -- So it's it's greatly expanded from its original rule. As Syria small liberal arts college. Now Damon is kind of half and half college -- half the traditional arts and sciences. Those are the usual kinds of programs that you respond. As the -- of any college. And were also. Have. Professional programs so business education and especially. Health care were really no rain throughout the region for several more health care nursing -- cursing physician assistant. Physical therapy. These are high quality programs that some say they are the best in the region. And and if you just go by the number of people trying to get into those few programs news. Doctor broken can tell you more about to submit that perhaps but. He keeps giving me numbers each semester. The days -- thousand applications for 22 slots I mean you know you've got something good. Which one is well that's for both physician assistants and physical therapy and physical therapy. No one would say there will came to expand it is it is is it difficult to expand. It it is we've we've expanded. Over the last three years. By about 35%. The trouble is that you have to find sites for the interns and physician assistant and physical therapy to go to. And those are limited. As and and also it's hard to find faculty prepared at that you know and the appropriate level with a doctorate level. You know to teach. In and were actually involved we're developing a program. Two. Prepare. Health professionals in in all the various LA health fields. At the doctorate level of their interest in teaching to fill those vacancies in teaching so more students can enter the programs and go out there meet market needs. I mean and I would think that with all the all that the health care you know health care sector of downtown buffalo now that's coming I mean that's going to be up that's got to be good some steam and is considered. You know I mean I know a lot of nurses myself and L went to Damon. -- is that's going to be good current. Yang you're absolutely right on target that with the new general project that's coming down the buffalo Niagara medical quarter. You know that will will draw a lot of industry and partners to a particular region who were interested in. In researching and patient care obviously. And also other parts of clinical practice. One of those areas that will expand tremendously is in molecular technology. So we're working with industrial partner to develop molecular technology program and also genetic counseling. So those are are areas that will grow with this new. Frontier of of genetics. And also. But you don't wanna just expand willing to either. I think one of the reasons why we're so unique and and there's so much demand. Is that we've become in these programs and a few others as well very exclusive. And so if you start here we ought to be for example on the other end structural were in effect your current diploma mill and -- anybody can get in an increase can get a degree. So people know when they come to -- college for those. Areas that they're getting something very special. Let me ask you something. And you brought up a good point because how how how is it that. You get into game how is it that a student gets into Damon what -- -- what do you need to get in there are other than you know tuition Miami what are the require. Well there's an there's an application process and you know there's a vetting process where they look at the whole person. It's not like some schools where they simply go by the numbers you know what's your vicinity right with two GP I mean we look at that. But there's so there's interviews here's writing that has to be done. And then also for those who. -- really competitive. To get. Financial way. We have very generous financial effect no one probably shouldn't say this on the radio but he -- since you're so. No one pays -- so called sticker price Wednesday. Now even the sticker price which is of about I think 24000 a year now. Even that is is very good -- if you compare it. Not only regionally the national actually mean for the bigger named schools. It might be at twice that. Larger school in well actually -- -- -- poster size but. If it is it's. Double there. And so the sticker price itself is it is. Good but nobody -- that and by that I mean. You know they prepare package for everybody some of it is financially. From the government. Some from Damon college itself. And then -- -- it will scholarships and so it -- gets bundled together in the end of the day. No one average from him I'm not making any promises here because it depends on student. And and the average people might be paying you're somebody might pay eleven some people might -- nine. But even possible of a less because we we have a few full ride scholarships as well. So there's a long. Process for getting in. But I want I think that's well worth it in the end the day when you compare this current quality with let's go let's say going to -- A big large universities that. And you might be adjusted number for most of your years there. The the qualities. Is incomparable. Sold more. Direct association with fewer professor. Mold -- and if you were sitting at a state university -- -- the student teacher ratio raise those sorts of things sound like they'd be on a lot more that's from approachable and if you were a situation where you've got 500 kids and one particular major and -- out as a chairman of the department -- -- error any of those folks get really close to any of the students -- That's right in fact our ratio is fifteen to one is that right that's correct fifteen to one. And you know one of the things that attracted me you know I'm in my second year here's president but I have been in higher education for 35 years. I've been in schools of various sizes all across the country. And one of the things that attracts me are attractive in the first place was that this. School really knows how to take care students. It's not just a matter of being you know friendly with them on the way it you know when the recruited him. All the way through the entire 45 years depending on what program here. They get the kind of support oh I just wish I had when I want to -- and I went to a college for the same size when might even say competitor. To -- that too far from here. And you know he's been there we didn't get that that kind of level of advice from advisors and follow up from people and they call you to make sure you're OK a him. You know and they they just make sure that your because you're part of the family. That you have every opportunity to succeed and I think that makes it special. It it it it does it's a definable difference I think between UN and some of the other schools -- what. Let me ask you this this is something I've always wondered about. How important. Is high school. In in getting a good college education is is it really important. Twice and do you look the high school part. For instance someone who was -- private high school. They pay a lot of money to go to private high school okay here in buffalo or whatever whatever that I school may be. Is -- that important there is a public school. Just as good. Well let our academic officer answer that -- biologists started by saying that. Of course you want to have students are prepared because the the better prepared -- when they get to college the eastern half. Going through and being successful. Colleges all across the country do a complaint in I don't know if this is a device that comes public private by the way. But colleges. Everywhere complained that students community -- right well they can't do math at the level should be. This is a problem. But you know there's a complex answer to this and -- -- -- -- with doctor broken soon. Is it that we need more of parent involvement. In other words -- I just point fingers schools. -- to what exactly is it and why is it that to him. People are coming through but -- Dorgan it would have some perspective. I think -- the education at a student receives at the elementary level and also to secondary level is extremely important however I don't think it should be a limit. Because there're a lot of students who. When they're going to you know either elementary or secondary. School they don't have the resource is and other students may have had. So he may not have had the opportunity to really maximize their potential. And we see that and higher education today we see students command with very high. High school averages but struggle in classes. Perhaps they had inflated grades and then we see some students who have come in with modest grades. And they seem to do very well and those students are typically students were attracted to. Different areas of the college that would would help them be successful so they may seek you know the learning center -- the student success center. Look for tutors and coaches and work with the faculty and so console. It is a complex problem. But that's one of the reasons why game in college isn't SAT optional schools so we look at the SAT and and many programs. Will use that as standard for consideration. But we also have that option -- -- CT for student chooses not to take the SET. Because maybe they have test anxiety or you know they just don't perform well and you know on -- -- and that type scale. Note will will have opportunities where they can meet with the faculty go through interviews. And they have other in vehicles that would give us an opportunity to see if they would be successful and I -- Because that's so true. Many occurrences that they they realize. That their future rides or perhaps they thought their future was writing an SET. And they just completely fooled you know it just did did -- such and it could be for other reasons to medical. Particular conditions that day what's happening in the family. Sure -- so many different forces pulling it a child as they're approaching that test and it's really unfair to say okay that your. Ticket for. Let's take -- taken away because you you relief flow of the test let's -- -- result is that you will you know take into. We've been looking at the whole person sure this is a waiter what what he sees the critical issues south facing higher education today. Well the one that you care most about recently of course is sort college affordability. Now. This is a tough question. Because I think. The national discourse. Has not been very nuanced about this. I've been involved in a lot of the national debates about this and -- columnist for. Chronicle our education that the Huffington Post and some other venues and what what I worry about -- and I've said this and other radio shows and other television broadcast. Is it that there seems to be a collective and by collective right I mean usually collective vote. Politicians. Of finger pointing at the colleges. And it almost sounds as if they're accusing assault of college students. And I can tell you. There's nothing like tobacco and that at least not in the school -- that. Most every college and college professor and president that I know bends over backwards to try to find ways to make things more affordable. So much so that sometimes our faculties about this because you know productive in the kinds of races they wanted to -- in an -- and the kinds of equipment that they could be used. And so far from. The colleges being these extravagant places that are just sort of you know spreading money all around the place at students' expense. Of most are very very frugal and than during the best that they can. The point that I try to make ad infinitum. Is that what you get now is completely different from -- when you and Paul you and I went to school. Give -- a few examples that I like to give. When we -- -- to school. We probably lived in a dormitory. And by dormitory that usually meant. Collection of little cell blocks and you don't usually cement block rooms right with it -- -- beds. And a two desks and you had your roommate and that's about it about the common bathroom was weighed on the all. And and you know I like to point out that. The word dormitory comes from the route we're doing -- which means to sleep and that's pretty much all you can do that little cell block. Well nowadays. They don't have dormitories effect they slept on hand if you forget to use that word -- residence halls. But residence halls is not a fancy word for the same thing that we used to have we went to school. Residence halls are much more humane places where students actually can live and learn. At the same time. So they might I mean they're all configured differently but you -- for example have. A a common living space and you have 45 roommates or may be for parents are roommates in four different rooms. Where you have the common living room and its economy and maybe kitchen that period. And then there's a -- grow larger lounge downstairs and that kind of thing. Now well why that not just a cell blocks well as I mentioned it's more humane. It also if you have this more natural kind of living situation you're much more likely to feel comfortable -- much more likely be able to study. There where you live rather than just that some library. And it it increases your possibility of success. Another example would be the ED. Well we all went to school. You know it was a cafeteria. And has that they've probably had to every night they have two different tests things to choose from you know your mystery meat. But remember we used to -- and your pizza or what or whatever it was -- -- and it pizza and mystery meat was one of those things. Showed up for you. And and I remember -- are the kids names for these things are obviously put. And I remember that. The beverage we had we used to call bug juice. It was probably some kind of Kuwait. Bug juice because in the trailer that whose social suite attracted the -- against but. Anyway. Now we don't have cafeterias. -- say we have dining facilities. In dining facilities is not a fancy word you visit in thing right now. There is in a much. More humane kind of situation where you can eat. And there's a sensitivity to people's. Dietary restrictions. Some people have to be gluten -- so people are real allergies and quite literally that could die you know some people with a serious allergies to peanuts. You all -- you have peanuts in front of them they could go to shock it you know we do need to think about these things 2030 years. And aunts and some people of religious concerns so. Now that it's a much more humane and workable situation. For the student. When it comes to eating lately and in just very quickly the same thing when it comes through to learn. So when I went to school we didn't have something called the writings sooner or like ago. Guests somebody who's been taught how to be -- tutor in writing to sit down with me and help me figure out what it is I was doing wrong. Professor was done after. Same thing with math you know do we do have a -- center -- ago for the same -- or if if by some emotional problems. I could go down the hall to the counseling center. Well now most colleges have some kind of version of all these things -- and even others. Like them. And it was so it decided over the years that you really can't pick out these things to have a first rate education. First -- college. But all of these things the dining facility verses to cafeteria. The living. -- reverses the dormitory. These kinds of student support academic support services to all cost money. And so. What we pay for now when we go to college. Is so much vastly more in higher quality. And when I went and Paul would you. Ireland yeah I think you didn't mention and I I'd love and on your campuses the Adam and would normally be callable library when I was going to school. But yours is called research information -- ego and RI's -- the wreck came out there called the rhetoric if you go -- -- you everywhere you look he's the computer. Screams the flat screens. And we're all talk and -- of course there you know you've got that the -- screens. Tall ceilings real comfortable furniture. Breakout rooms in abundance that are all glanced in and look over kind of in the atrium type of thing it says. Really cool building and I mean you it. It talk but expensive had a cost an enormous amount of money to put it in senators. And let me tell you that concept because it wasn't just throw some money to something in the in -- and the extravagant. When we went to school it's true that -- library. In the library was very specifically stacks and stacks of books in fact we all call that is you know the stacks. In worst -- he's up in the stacks studying for that that -- that could happen. And you know that's how work got done in those days -- nowadays. So much is digitized you don't need all those paper. A books and journals and so most of it. Is really on line. What you do need. Because there's a premium nowadays -- collaborative work remarks do. Is. -- spaces where students can collaborate. Productively together. And so what this new version of the old librarians do research information comments or comments signifies. Common areas where students can. Get together sit around and maybe if you. Terminals. Or maybe just -- some coaches and signatures together. And -- projects together work out problems figure it out. If they had to do some -- it to run a line OK let me look that up not to some stack where -- get a paper copies for right there was. And guess what. When we went to school you know we all went reluctantly to even those of us like me cooers sort of an English majors who like to reading and writing. We we nonetheless went reluctantly to library right to the stacks. Nowadays -- for example Damon's researcher for mission comes. Don't want to be so every time you go there they're crowded in -- we even found I won't name the schools. But there's a certain public and -- private not too far away from us. Where students are sneak into our or our place to conduct a study but that's okay we we we don't mind but. It's wholly different experience from when we went to school three years. And you even have a coffee shop in there. Not a not a I don't is that a brand name I don't know whether to brand name but it looks like one and it's. It's it's nice Scott likely coffees. And in and when we are going to school you couldn't. Bring anything in life that's right over now or whatever it is that's the sizzle. We encourage turns it upside down rightly interested and yours is really effect I've been known to hang out in there to for the right reasons -- created under. Or I might you know have a meeting nearby and it's really comfortable stuff and you know since -- -- and read. NC -- these are all the kinds of things that. Help make student success. So if you don't have to worry about your living situation going on to you know cellblock. And you don't have to worry about if you have to mystery -- again. Or if you're not going to be able to get help for that. -- that's coming up. And you have a comfortable place like that Damon's -- to study and this makes a world of difference. -- getting through. And so. And once again to get back to the main. Subject here. College affordability is a problem and none of dislikes deceased students come up with that. But we do have to remember number one that what you get nowadays is considerably different qualitatively and quantitatively. From what we used again. And by the way I will say one other footnote along affordability line here. The pew. Group just came out with a study. And it's that showed once again and that a college degree. And justice -- -- so it's of the paper a college degree still is. Extreme value. You know to you personal. As opposed to your not getting one. And and in fact as the study shows that the gap is widening between. Vote you know the money gap if you will between those who. Have a degree a college degree in those who don't. In other words there income you're talking about the income over over lifespan -- -- now I don't know if it was in that particular -- when it. Generally speaking in the last few years it's been. A thought to be. Almost a million dollar difference. Over a lifetime of work. That you would make with with a college degree that you wouldn't make if you didn't have -- decree. You know and so even if you did graduate. You know with 151000 dollars or something like that you know it's a terrible thing. But think of the -- and and who's more likely to pay that -- It's somebody with a college degree who's going to be paying it was going to be paid. A lot more than the person. So the ratio is worth it in the long run to. Go to college and I think the other thing is that on it shows a commitment to an employer. On this opposed to some but it maybe got their -- we have hard knocks which is not so bad. In some cases but. You put somebody that's gone this on a college -- somebody that has been in you have to decide between the two you'd look at the person it. You really and immerse themselves for four years and there's something in you know showed commitment learned that live with with other individuals. Studying where to find information. If they needed it. I think that shows a lot rather than somebody that said. And academia I'm just going or surround and you know maybe I'll go hostile get a good that they're planning terrorist that's right they're playing Iraq's the riches. Great stories were so -- days ago and ended they became -- Christians talking to -- how long ago and and they're truly inspiring but you know those -- the you know. The very special cases. And the one thing that you that you get to from a college for four years or so it that a college program. Is life skills. I mean you were -- schools or other places to know. But when when you are off at a college for four years you know -- and a trying to balance of studying with socialize with you know. Learning to get along with people that are no -- Q because when you go to college. It's not like. Living in your old neighborhood you have people of different races different religions different everything. And that's all learning experience and in effect it's an invaluable. I think so too unsecure -- thereabouts and that we're gonna pick up by and that would come back we're gonna take a short break. Here with doctor Gary Olson president Damon college in Amherst and doctor -- program. Who is so vice president of academic affairs at -- college. And that's great power with Damon college here and not in bubble be right back with buffalo means business on ESPN radio interviews. Seeing the Firestone grocery gift. New set of Firestone tires can't wait to. Now she's taking legendary performance straight to soccer practice and the ride so quiet you can hear her teenage daughter whispering about you all the way in the back row. When you make your car Firestone is not just a minivan it's many fantastic and so whatever you. -- And would let a friend get in the ring with a heavyweight champion. Little friend guess which word to cut the so why on earth would you let your friends smoke. Friends don't let friends smoke especially when there's and he -- it looks feels and tastes just like the real thing so for everything friends do return the favor. Human enjoyed -- electronic cigarettes and cigarettes you met your match. Available at participating 7-Eleven Walgreens and other retailers nationwide cup for silverlight -- advancements in which did you find out more than your dot com. Welcome back to segment number two here in buffalo means business with Gary Olson president of Damon college and -- -- in my broken. Vice president of academic affairs and dean of the college and acting and very honored to have these 2 gentlemen this morning. And you know we were talking about affordability in the last segment of higher education after some college degrees. That that maybe don't lead to high paying jobs. Well that it that is too but he as he knows that not every college degree program. Leads to as. High paying job and so. As the other. Obviously having a college degree in and of itself is -- per view and understand and she did. But that being said I mean. Just take my own discipline if you you know I was an English major. When. Forward to become an English professor. Now I knew all along that. Being a professor is not. English is not a particularly high paying. A profession I mean it's better than if I didn't have a college degree and world the real world try to you know be it's something in -- something. But. I knew all along that all the degrees would have been more lucrative but it was an interest it. I wanted to do this and I made a conscious choice that well. I'll make that tradeoff I will be -- well but oh really just love what I do. I think it's important for students to be. In a position to make that kind of decision. In congress to have the information to know well if you go on let's say to be a teacher I schoolteacher. High school teachers unfortunately. Are not paid. I mean after many many years they might in my start to get up there but generally speaking teachers and a paid well they're certainly not paid. With their -- And so. You need to be have the kind of information affront to know that if you're gonna choose to be a teacher maybe a special education teacher we have great special education. Programs to him. That. This is something you do -- love and dedication. And professional commitment but that you're not going to be driving a Mercedes. On the other hand you know Willis. Somebody might say well you know I love that stuff but I don't want to live like that. So you're an example I have radio Ph.D. student or person who's finishing a masters could get ready for Ph.D. program. Our assist persons -- And he's gonna go on to get a English Ph.D. and he called me up. Just had finished his period as masters and was applying to pick -- programs he said I changed my mind. I don't wanna go on to get a Ph.D. in English and a civil wars that you -- to it's it's a great job. He said you know I decided. I don't wanna be pore in my life so I'm gonna apply to some MBA program to get a masters in this business. And it's okay well you know at least you have a clear sense of what you want -- it's better than going into something -- you know no liking for all the rest of your career. So number one people need to understand the differences in. The various programs -- doctor programs. Field. You know physicians. And be physical therapy. I think our students graduate. Making what about 80000 navy right away. Could and whereas if you're a teacher you might be making forty -- so. Now truth again after truth and and advertising. That gap will grow a cross after fifteen years or so so that you know there to -- comparable. But you know -- -- what we're trying to address that so for example. One of the things that you hear in the national discourse about our education over and over again. Is the value of degrees in liberal arts. My own. Field English or philosophy or the language score indicated German decree which means German literature actually. Now you have people saying why in the world in this day and age when were social science and technology dependent. Would you waste four years going and getting philosophy degree. Those people would say -- philosophy is a great thing to do one side but what the world you do would spend the money. To go to get a degree and what we do that we teach philosophy do we really have enough. Need for more philosophy teachers. And you know as -- and liberal arts I hate to hear that but it's it's a legitimate. Question. Now one of the things that we've done it Damon and I give all the credit here to talk to prove it this is a brilliant move. I don't think there's any other program. In the country that -- doing something like this. They call the plots program -- and I want my two to explain to this is a way to address. The question well. Why can't I just have -- much lesser degree and have a rewarding career so -- Explain to with a plus -- things. We'll couple only a couple issues that face higher education today is the doctor Olson mentioned the cost of education but also in debt incurred by students. Secondary to their education. If a student would like to and and perhaps their their -- -- in a particular area. They wanna go into English or site or philosophy or religion. Those programs that are more of the liberal arts humanities. In nature. But when they graduate in May not finding jobs and so now we've got this tuition bill. And they can't find a job so they can't repay their loans and and and begin a career and and begin -- life. What we've done is is we've taken the spirit the concept of what the liberal arts and humanities recognizing how important ER to prepare students to critically think. -- communicate to present. All the things in a well rounded education would do but it may not lead to a job so we've taken the spirit behind the liberal arts. And we've been edited into this plus -- program. And an example is student comes to game in college for policy Spanish -- which degree. When they graduate they may have limited limited opportunities with their pastures. To find a job so while they're going to game and they would have several different options. To track in what we call a plus up. So for instance they could be following their language degree curriculum but they also track towards global business. War criminal justice. Or political science so when they graduate they don't have one door -- they may have seven doors open and available to them. So we've done that with essentially dollar liberal arts programs for instance philosophy is an incredible opportunity for students to learn to think -- And and to really reflect and and development of a really -- -- critical thinking skills. But you don't find many jobs. It's that would allow just hours we have a bachelor's degree in philosophy. If you're a little it is his whole philosophy -- park -- -- Are also rockets at. -- I have a philosophy. Exactly -- -- -- -- -- so what we're saying -- -- come to Damon you know you know pursue a degree but also plus top and in in business or political science. Or biology. So when you graduate you could work for policy writers she could work for different agencies nonprofit government balance on. You have more. Behind -- or four year experience then if you would just follow their degree program and Paul you mentioned earlier what was it like a minor. It's not it's it's a very focused coherent meaningful set of courses that you're taking. Directly linked to your to your degree program so that when you graduate. You can be very creative and innovative you can look at it feels that you might may find a job and apply get an interview. And convinced him the confidence and convinced the employer that you're there right person. Because not only do you have the skill you have these four others laws they had access. That that thing comes up though OK so you're tracking from another course of study. To say I mean there it on your adding more credit hours no over more classes I think that's what maybe. First comes to mind with me is this is going to be a lot of work. No it's it's it's sustain it if you can do it for years and it's the same tuition. And it's essentially the same credit hours it's just a very meaningful coherent. Path. And we spent a lot of time we we have a coordinator doctor mills who is very very very experienced and putting departments together. And and and linking. Departments that that may not have ever talked to each other an example would be a student wants to come to game accounts for premed. And a lot of students would like to be physicians are veterinarians. Dentists and so on but they learn maybe and that first or second year that. Either that's not what they truly want a do or they may not make it they they they mean not you know. Be eligible for you know -- medical school or veterinarian schooler or are such. But now they've taken those biology courses those chemistry courses physics and so on. And -- -- plus -- English. They would be incredibly remarkable. For all these health agencies so now you've got you can write -- Absolutely and you have -- science background that terminology. You know and and again you can do and and any you know any of those of biology major who who works a tossup in business. Or biology major who works you know -- opt in in a language. So we've we've created these opportunities for students. But really to develop a culture of creativity and innovation that because you're doing business bureau opening twelve more doors. And you're gonna have the confidence you're gonna have creativity in your -- the innovation to going and and vent your job. And and we know that that graduates in the future they'll change their career path at least seven times. And and the stronger their portfolio and and experiences. In the you know the further they'll go. And and we think that that's addressing the cost issue but also the debt incurred by students or if you if you graduate with a philosophy degree. You'll find a job and it will be a good paying job and you pay your debt and you know on and and things will be better -- To part of the beauty of this thing is that. Rather than be. Across -- vocational which you know some schools could get. And we wouldn't wanna do that -- colleges much more than just preparing for a job and and you know I can't stress how important. But rather than that its goal directed without becoming that kind of vocational. Preoccupation. Does the star rated freshman year to use that was designed to raise your freshman year taking liberal are you taking the basic. Courses -- -- Q while rounded individual. Is this where it starts with -- or with a plus a program and it but we're introducing it when students are interest in. Replying to the college and they come through our open houses and and we're letting them know of this however students who have taken a year or two in biology. Could. If if that wasn't working out for them. They could go to -- coordinator you know of this program and look at all the different paths that they still could follow. And not spend another time or another semester. She -- a problem. Is that in a lot of schools. You have a great -- freedom to take. Generally what you want within certain there -- restrictions. So you know for those not familiar. Everybody usually going through college they have their general education which is kind of a package of things that. You know you you ought to have just as a college -- And then there's the major which is the specific kinds of course -- still -- -- -- specialist and something. That but within those. To sort of restricted areas you have a lot usually. Discretion as to which courses you you know so somebody might take you know. Very easy kind of course over here instead of that harder -- that could have been an alternative and so. And without direction a lot of students who just all over the map that -- I think a practice and think of but what this -- up was to do is focus. It allows you to say okay well I've got all these credit or slots. I'm gonna put them to good use and in the end of the day I would have to specialties. And see that's the beauty and it in it's it's it's doing that without being so preoccupied with a particular job but the other and that it makes it less like a college immoral -- Canola corn to a technical school. So now when his closeup available are you doing it this semester of his -- into the semester or just start in September. 2014. We've already started there're there are students now who have redesigned their their curriculum. Lean toward a -- you know plus program. And so it's it's implemented its engaged. We we have a lot of interest in students were presently with us. And we just had a who we scholars scholars today where students. Who are interest in end game in college and our current interest it and in scholarships and so on a client go through this rigorous. Process and and we had a campus full of of potential students and parents. And we had a session that two sessions that introduce the plus support and and they were. -- they were standing room only and a lot of great questions. And a lot of excitement. -- in this this is really as far as I can tell and and again as a columnist. The national scene I have to keep my eyes open -- the trends -- -- I've not seen this. Kind of program anywhere in the country and it it is that there is one I don't know about it but I think we're setting -- Damon we're setting. Standards that it really could be taken up by other colleges across country sort of template down almost like a template it be easy to copy. -- and is we just. We want to ask about the other course that you offer that I think user interest in and it's held exits primate center or -- talk about the -- he's got to talk about it is that is that guarantees jobs as I understand that we it's been put together. Right well basically what it is is this. In the United States we don't have enough of the workforce to do the kinds of visual effects that we need in all the movies and commercials some things that -- And by visual effects it means a figure that is like Photoshop for video so everything you see on TV it's been -- believe it or not it's not how they shot. So they might take. It's a nighttime sky and make it to date they might put clouds and discarded didn't have any that might change the color of that truck go. They'll do anything and everything they can put your head on his it is. And just like a fortune but it's labor intensive and so what's been happening is that a lot of these jobs have been shipped off to India. Or what we've done now when you might have seen all the -- publicity about this when the Governor Cuomo administration. Gave David and are sort of industry partner four point five million dollar grant some months ago. Is this we have all these agreements -- Community Colleges. They're gonna send us there. Graduates with a two year degree in visual effects through immediately gonna go into our. Program and work side by side with these with this industry partner. Who has all of these contracts with. In a real guitar movies and everything and commercials. You saw the newspaper just the other day we got the contract to revived by Charlie the tuna in the sun kissed -- and ask god members or Charlie. Only the best to -- and so story. What so. There era so. So these these people get to be have real world work while they're learning in the Damon program. When they graduate they are eligible to be hard full time by that company or the metro one of the many other companies doing this kind of work. And the broader vision is that buffalo will become. Of this kind of post production work in the country. Because it's been made with tax incentives and so so easy to do business here. And now with a partner that actually can train these people in game. It's it's a perfect situation for that industry. What can you started demon. You're one and do this sounds like -- it's the other third fourth year well the the that visual effects program is a certificate is a very technical degree that teaches you all the technical things you need that we do have a four year program. In animation. Now that specifically -- -- kinds of things where is the visual effects. You might be touching up animated things you might be touching her just a regular -- something shot up the street there. -- and so they they can be independent. Well let's talk about the national reform to the national reform hot topical that. Well this you -- expert. As you know President Obama came to buffalo to. Sort of launches. Effort to reform. Higher education in and I applaud that into. I think. A lot of reform needs to be done including the affordability. But I have been vocal though Curtis criticizing part of it and what what. Worries me is that there's much talk. Not only from this administration but from other quarters and in other states from. -- -- Two device serious ways to. Rate colleges. And the intent is to make them more accountable which our -- for. But the the problem is what is a measurement that -- -- news and who gets to decide with a mission. It is OK so for example one of the things that was brought up by president himself and others in another state. States. Is that to him. They would like to start. Rating colleges by the amount of money. That you're -- college graduates make in the first year after the graduate. Well that might sound in the face of it like a good idea it's a wacky night you know tiger watch. I mentioned a minute ago that if you're in doctor programs -- feel -- you graduate from Damon with physical therapy degree you'll likely be making 80000. If your mind field English and you graduated and brought teach English he might you make -- forty years 45000. In that first year. Okay so. And now I did say that those two salaries might meet up at your fifteen years but certainly in that first year there there divergent. Well that puts. A college like Damon which passed a physical therapy program and has PA programs and so on. At a greater advantage over schools that are just over arts colleges and they only have let's say English is your thoughts a few things like that. Or they go down the other -- -- dispatcher. Would about a school that has engineering in the change medical and things that even demon doesn't happen. Then there's going to be yet another skewing. So to -- by salary dollars is not the way to to rate schools. And it also sends a bad message you don't go to college it's not workforce training otherwise you know there -- plenty of other places to go. You're going for something much green grander than than simply the job yes you do what did you. But that's that the reason. It is the enrichment of your life in general that you're looking and in in the discipline that comes with it and that's right. And maturity. In this Sony things that it would be wrong to to operate. In dollars and cents -- And the other another thing that that is proposed is the graduation rate. Now we all undergraduate all of our students it's true you know but. And and I think we all should work on as we aren't -- We should all work on increasing. The graduation rate and by that we mean you know we want every student that that it comes in the door to to leave with -- degree. And as you know. It's unrealistic to think that that'll happen -- you know. Things happen to people's life. You know they move. That they -- stuff for media to give up hope you know. They're all kinds of things so that there is no there's nobody has a 100%. In college. Rate graduation. But. If all of a sudden there's a state to imposed. A measurement that we're gonna one of the reason when -- Yardsticks that we're gonna use to measure colleges is their graduation rate. What what are we doing I -- I could do. A change that in a minute I could be ahead of everybody just -- -- degrees. Just give outlets are running close that we -- start to change I mean is that really what are you wanna read people. So I don't think so I think thank you want to have a good -- as challenging. Curriculum. I think even for the self worth of the student -- I think do you want a student at the end of the bases. Boy I really had to work displaced right -- I'm really glad I came here because I I really feel confident and I know I know that I can. And I think our graduates of -- like that I have heard employers tell me. That to some of the students that they've gotten as graduating as undergraduate. Are so much more prepared and confident that some of the ones that got -- graduate students from the places. Such anecdotal but. That's the kind of person that you want you know what some of these think accounts for not. We have just about two minutes left so while I can -- your retirement college this morning. In two minutes he does get the floor here who would you like to say. -- against two messages one that doctor broken. Has been talking about witches. It you know this kind of -- focused plus a program like -- but Damon. It really candies the way the future. Where students who really have an opportunity to vastly expand their marketability when they get out without selling missiles and being just vocational. I think that's really important message and really. Marvelous -- innovative ways to do things. And the other message I guess on the national. Some of these national concerns that are floating around. I really do hope that people are really careful. And how do whatever this reform gets made if it ever does. In how the rate colleges in that they don't just take what I mean seemed. Reasonable on the surface and put a bunch of these measurements together and say OK now we have something real art colleges because. If they go with the kinds of things you're talking about now it's not real. They need to have people that are professional educators in the discussion itself far that I could see. You got a lot of politicians and got a lot of nothing wrong politicians but I'll tell you. Every time I've seen in the various states were worked politicians attempt or reforms of higher education. It usually ended up doing the exact opposite that people in. Professional situations -- education would have done. Well I'm glad that I get to have Damon college here this morning you guys are kind of like a resident experts and show up in terms of enters a higher education. And we'll have -- back and soon Gary Olson whose president Damon count at Amherst. And -- broken who is vice president of academic affairs and dean of the college. And of course -- my work here thank you very much gentlemen for joining us all morning and down Q -- Woolsey is soon thank you very much. Thank you for listening to buffalo means business -- -- to buffalo radio veteran M local business have a good -- Shula. Buffalo means business is an hour long weekly radio show that's spotlights -- local business brought you by doctor Bob dental care. For worry free dentistry hold your nearest doctor -- location. And by copier fax business technologies go home of document intelligence. To have your favorite local business featured on this program please call 8430167. That's 8430167. Thanks for listening to buffalo means business on ESPN fifteen -- want me.